DUST Search - Basic Frames, Again

Reav Hannari wrote:

el OPERATOR wrote:

Well, if I'm behind about a CCP hotfix, then what I've said ISK-wise isn't accurate. The Basics were cheaper until PROTO last I looked a few months back because of a similiar thread. SP-wise tho they are still cheaper to get into (HALF the SP), thereby freeing up time to generate the ISK to pay for them. Until the user decides to specialize and use the ISK cheaper, but SP more expensive suits.

Still, though. Not Broken or Unfair or Illogical or Wasteful or.....(?).

It is illogical. Why would anyone take a basic frame to level 5 and spend 1.2 million SP to do that when they can switch over at level 3 and spend those points to get to level 3 in a specialized suit?

Because they can't make up their minds? That's weak.

I started this thread to generate ideas on how to make basic frame suits and skills more useful. Most of us agree that they are just a stepping stone, an SP sink and a waste of ISK to continue using for most cases. I don't understand why you are arguing that they are fine as they are today.

Open-Beta Vet.
NPC Corp Independent Contractor. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original.


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el OPERATOR Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 49	Posted - 2014.01.22 18:31:00 - [1] - Quote Basic suits are one of the few actually well-balanced aspects of DUST, IMO. I run Minmatar basic mediums fairly often and have done so since Uprising. Yes, the balance to them is that they cost less SP wise and ISK wise (until compared to PROTO level Assault). But, thats a fair balance! I'll gladly take an added bonus, if one were to fall from the sky, but that Basic frames "need" a bonus to compensate for a supposed "lack" in capability, I just don't see the reasoning, outside of, "Well everything else has a bonus". Downplaying the impact of accessing viable suits for half the SP sink does not reduce said impact KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: +1 36 is way too many suits not to have a purpose. They all just become obsolete after unlocking specialized ones. Also, I really hate the "it takes less SP" excuse to make it more expensive. Basic dropships take less SP than assault dropships, yet assault dropships are still way more expensive. If something is better, it should cost more, even if it takes more SP. We really do need a bonus to justify having 5 levels to the basic frame skill. Thing is, the specialized fits are more expensive, until PROTO. And maybe, just maybe, Basics price higher w/out a bonus to entice individuals who are considering going PROTOBasic to actually specialize in the suit and not go SuperTourist about it. The specialized suits ARE better, and they DO cost more. Open-Beta Vet. NPC Corp Independent Contractor. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original.
el OPERATOR Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 49	Posted - 2014.01.22 19:13:00 - [2] - Quote Adding an equipment slot would make my day! XD They are already half the SP, which has been my personal point about basic suits all along. Open-Beta Vet. NPC Corp Independent Contractor. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original.
el OPERATOR Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 49	Posted - 2014.01.22 20:02:00 - [3] - Quote Bethhy wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Adding an equipment slot would make my day! XD They are already half the SP, which has been my personal point about basic suits all along. Still to take it to a dead end tree at lvl 5.. would be just for the suit. and an extra equipment slot makes the suit functional but not worth the Skill point cost. Why invest into lvl 4 and 5 of the skill just for the suit when you could invest that SP into working on your specialization? Only way i could see it a worth while investment is make it something even a 1-3 month old player could get into asap and be functional in most roles. Aswell as giving an option for a cost effective side train for a vet player to finish off lvl 4 and 5 of the tree. I personally would actually take my MinMedBasic suit to proto if that gave the suit an extra equipment slot. 2 equipments and all the base stats of the PROTO Assault would = a very combat flexible suit. Open-Beta Vet. NPC Corp Independent Contractor. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original.
el OPERATOR Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 53	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:30:00 - [4] - Quote Well, if I'm behind about a CCP hotfix, then what I've said ISK-wise isn't accurate. The Basics were cheaper until PROTO last I looked a few months back because of a similiar thread. SP-wise tho they are still cheaper to get into (HALF the SP), thereby freeing up time to generate the ISK to pay for them. Until the user decides to specialize and use the ISK cheaper, but SP more expensive suits. Still, though. Not Broken or Unfair or Illogical or Wasteful or.....(?). Open-Beta Vet. NPC Corp Independent Contractor. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original.
el OPERATOR Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 53	Posted - 2014.01.22 23:09:00 - [5] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Well, if I'm behind about a CCP hotfix, then what I've said ISK-wise isn't accurate. The Basics were cheaper until PROTO last I looked a few months back because of a similiar thread. SP-wise tho they are still cheaper to get into (HALF the SP), thereby freeing up time to generate the ISK to pay for them. Until the user decides to specialize and use the ISK cheaper, but SP more expensive suits. Still, though. Not Broken or Unfair or Illogical or Wasteful or.....(?). It is illogical. Why would anyone take a basic frame to level 5 and spend 1.2 million SP to do that when they can switch over at level 3 and spend those points to get to level 3 in a specialized suit? Because they can't make up their minds? That's weak. I started this thread to generate ideas on how to make basic frame suits and skills more useful. Most of us agree that they are just a stepping stone, an SP sink and a waste of ISK to continue using for most cases. I don't understand why you are arguing that they are fine as they are today. I would have to assume that a post-beta player who puts his SP into PROTOing Basic suits does so because he/she then gets a PROTO assault spec'd suit, for HALF the SP investment. Which would be a clear decision, use less SP on the suit so that more can be used elsewhere, like a weapon or mods or w/e. As far as making them "more useful" they're as "useful" as anything one could consider 'basic' is going to be! I'm obviously in the minority on recognizing the value of the HALF SP part of the price, whaddya want for half the SP?? The things are statistically balanced, compared to the rest of the suits and completely viable on the battlefield!! They are that stepping-stone between the (STARTER) suits and the Specialties, no doubt. That is the role, That is the purpose, That is the use. Want more? Wear them in pubs and boost your ISK payout vs. all the ADV/PROTO cosplayers in there. Open-Beta Vet. NPC Corp Independent Contractor. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original.